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 Saudi Arabian Nukes
JV
Posted: Apr 20 2017, 04:20 PM


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Oh, ok, so then you're bluffing about developing Nuclear Weapons? Keep in mind that bluffing isn't much better than actually doing it, since the point is to cause fear, the same fear that brings people to a nuclear arms race in a real proliferation situation. Have you considered what you'd do if a country like Iran or Jordan or whomever succumbed to the fear and started their own nuclear program? Then, you'd come to us and say "Well now we're starting a real program since they are too" and your bluff becomes real. Using fear to force others to submit to your goals does not work, but is more likely to cause escalating push back against you; vs, for example, talking calmly and with respect to one another, which tends to de-escalate and actually remove danger thus obtaining your safety goals in actuality.

And keep in mind, everyone, how pervasive fear is. Even if Saudi Arabia outright admitted to bluffing, the whispers in the back of our minds "Is he telling the truth this time?" So, if you really want to talk about Saudi Arabia's self defense, let's talk about how you're undermining your own safety goals to a nuclear extreme.

Egypt just now rather amicably put down such fears on their end, and I urge you to do the same, honorable gentleman from Saudi Arabia.


--------------------
Llazar Fundo, always and forever.

The Zapata.

UN Secretary General BOP XV

Windill: (JV) (W)
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Bonzai
Posted: Apr 20 2017, 07:36 PM


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QUOTE (JV @ Apr 20 2017, 04:20 PM)
Oh, ok, so then you're bluffing about developing Nuclear Weapons? Keep in mind that bluffing isn't much better than actually doing it, since the point is to cause fear, the same fear that brings people to a nuclear arms race in a real proliferation situation. Have you considered what you'd do if a country like Iran or Jordan or whomever succumbed to the fear and started their own nuclear program? Then, you'd come to us and say "Well now we're starting a real program since they are too" and your bluff becomes real. Using fear to force others to submit to your goals does not work, but is more likely to cause escalating push back against you; vs, for example, talking calmly and with respect to one another, which tends to de-escalate and actually remove danger thus obtaining your safety goals in actuality.

And keep in mind, everyone, how pervasive fear is. Even if Saudi Arabia outright admitted to bluffing, the whispers in the back of our minds "Is he telling the truth this time?" So, if you really want to talk about Saudi Arabia's self defense, let's talk about how you're undermining your own safety goals to a nuclear extreme.

Egypt just now rather amicably put down such fears on their end, and I urge you to do the same, honorable gentleman from Saudi Arabia.

We appeal to Saudi Arabia to follow the wise advice by the UNSG and the example set by Egypt.


--------------------
Mexicanos, al grito de guerra! - Pascual Orozco

BOP XV - Veljko Kadijevic - Minister of Defence for SFR Yugoslavia
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SupremeLeader
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 05:09 AM


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Should we issue a stern condemnation of the recent actions by Saudi Arabia as a council?


--------------------
Balance of Power XV (1990-)

Prime Minister of Singapore

De Facto leader of ASEAN

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Sachieiel
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 05:13 AM


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As much as I am opposed to nuclear proliferation, I don't think we can in good faith condemn Saudi Arabia for this. After all our 5 permanent members all reserve the right to nuclear armaments. We should take steps to keep nuclear arming of the world to a minimum, but it would be rather hypocritical of us to condemn those nations that don't agree.


--------------------
BOP XV
Chancellor Helmut Kohl
Federal Republic of Germany

Mexican Revolution
Luis Terrazas

[spoiler]War on Terror
President Vladimir Putin of the Russian Federation

BOP XIV
King Khalid bin Abdulaziz al Saud
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
[/spoiler]
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Videospirit
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 08:07 AM


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If Saudi Arabia were to pursue developing nuclear weapons it would strain their friendly relations with the United States, but as long as they are not threatening to use weapons of mass destruction against their neighbours and continue working with the international community to resolve all disputes diplomatically in accordance with international law, I do not feel it is this security council's place to admonish them.


--------------------
President George Bush
BoP XV

Madero
The true **** President of Mexico
"Mexicanos, al grito de guerra!"
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Polyakov
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 08:16 AM


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Nuclear proliferation should be discouraged in every way possible. We do not admonish Saudi Arabia but we should work to create a climate in the world where no country feels it should possess nuclear weapons.


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Francois Mitterand - President of the French Republic
Pedro Lascurain - Mexican Foreign Minister - Mexicanos, al grito de guerra!
Martin Eagle - GOP House member for Pennsylvania.
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Red John the Taiwanese Man
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 05:19 PM


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We are glad that the NPT is treated with such disdain by the West, and we will ensure our policies regarding the middle-east are updated so as to ensure we keep with the times.


--------------------
Aureliano Blanquet
Mexican General, patriot, conservative, 'Mexicanos, al grito de guerra!'

[spoiler=Former]

Usama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden/
Leader of Al-Qaeda, War on Terror

[/spoiler]
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babyfinland
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 05:20 PM


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We are in the process of negotiating a resigning of the NPT pending defensive agreements with our allies.

Anyone using the fear-mongering produced by the UNSG as an excuse to pursue nuclear weapons should be held accountable for their actions.


--------------------
Balance of Power XV (1990)
King Fahd bin Abdulaziz Al Saud
Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques
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Sachieiel
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 05:33 PM


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QUOTE (Red John the Taiwanese Man @ Apr 21 2017, 11:19 PM)
We are glad that the NPT is treated with such disdain by the West, and we will ensure our policies regarding the middle-east are updated so as to ensure we keep with the times.

Germany is a nation dedicated to nuclear non-proliferation. Indeed we have gone further than the NPT by declaring that we will not permit the basing of nuclear weapons in our territory.

However, we cannot see it as anything other than hypocrisy if 5 (or maybe 6) nuclear powers condemned Saudi Arabia for pursuing nuclear capabilities themselves.


--------------------
BOP XV
Chancellor Helmut Kohl
Federal Republic of Germany

Mexican Revolution
Luis Terrazas

[spoiler]War on Terror
President Vladimir Putin of the Russian Federation

BOP XIV
King Khalid bin Abdulaziz al Saud
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
[/spoiler]
Top
Red John the Taiwanese Man
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 05:35 PM


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QUOTE (Sachieiel @ Apr 21 2017, 05:33 PM)
QUOTE (Red John the Taiwanese Man @ Apr 21 2017, 11:19 PM)
We are glad that the NPT is treated with such disdain by the West, and we will ensure our policies regarding the middle-east are updated so as to ensure we keep with the times.

Germany is a nation dedicated to nuclear non-proliferation. Indeed we have gone further than the NPT by declaring that we will not permit the basing of nuclear weapons in our territory.

However, we cannot see it as anything other than hypocrisy if 5 (or maybe 6) nuclear powers condemned Saudi Arabia for pursuing nuclear capabilities themselves.

Indeed, we apologize, and hope to spread nuclear capabilities to all our allied states.

Because that is conducive to global stability, right?


--------------------
Aureliano Blanquet
Mexican General, patriot, conservative, 'Mexicanos, al grito de guerra!'

[spoiler=Former]

Usama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden/
Leader of Al-Qaeda, War on Terror

[/spoiler]
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Sachieiel
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 05:48 PM


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QUOTE (Red John the Taiwanese Man @ Apr 21 2017, 11:35 PM)
QUOTE (Sachieiel @ Apr 21 2017, 05:33 PM)
QUOTE (Red John the Taiwanese Man @ Apr 21 2017, 11:19 PM)
We are glad that the NPT is treated with such disdain by the West, and we will ensure our policies regarding the middle-east are updated so as to ensure we keep with the times.

Germany is a nation dedicated to nuclear non-proliferation. Indeed we have gone further than the NPT by declaring that we will not permit the basing of nuclear weapons in our territory.

However, we cannot see it as anything other than hypocrisy if 5 (or maybe 6) nuclear powers condemned Saudi Arabia for pursuing nuclear capabilities themselves.

Indeed, we apologize, and hope to spread nuclear capabilities to all our allied states.

Because that is conducive to global stability, right?

Not condemning nations for pursuing nuclear capabilities does not mean that we shouldn't take less condemnatory means of persuading nations against pursuing nuclear capabilities.

Is the PRC asking that we condemn nations such as Israel, India and Pakistan for their own pursuits of nuclear weapons?


--------------------
BOP XV
Chancellor Helmut Kohl
Federal Republic of Germany

Mexican Revolution
Luis Terrazas

[spoiler]War on Terror
President Vladimir Putin of the Russian Federation

BOP XIV
King Khalid bin Abdulaziz al Saud
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
[/spoiler]
Top
Red John the Taiwanese Man
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 05:52 PM


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QUOTE (Sachieiel @ Apr 21 2017, 05:48 PM)
QUOTE (Red John the Taiwanese Man @ Apr 21 2017, 11:35 PM)
QUOTE (Sachieiel @ Apr 21 2017, 05:33 PM)
QUOTE (Red John the Taiwanese Man @ Apr 21 2017, 11:19 PM)
We are glad that the NPT is treated with such disdain by the West, and we will ensure our policies regarding the middle-east are updated so as to ensure we keep with the times.

Germany is a nation dedicated to nuclear non-proliferation. Indeed we have gone further than the NPT by declaring that we will not permit the basing of nuclear weapons in our territory.

However, we cannot see it as anything other than hypocrisy if 5 (or maybe 6) nuclear powers condemned Saudi Arabia for pursuing nuclear capabilities themselves.

Indeed, we apologize, and hope to spread nuclear capabilities to all our allied states.

Because that is conducive to global stability, right?

Not condemning nations for pursuing nuclear capabilities does not mean that we shouldn't take less condemnatory means of persuading nations against pursuing nuclear capabilities.

Is the PRC asking that we condemn nations such as Israel, India and Pakistan for their own pursuits of nuclear weapons?

We would rmeind Germany that those three were never signatories of the treaty in the first place. Saudi Arabia most definitely was a part of the NPT. They withdrew from it, after all.



--------------------
Aureliano Blanquet
Mexican General, patriot, conservative, 'Mexicanos, al grito de guerra!'

[spoiler=Former]

Usama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden/
Leader of Al-Qaeda, War on Terror

[/spoiler]
Top
Sachieiel
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 05:59 PM


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QUOTE (Red John the Taiwanese Man @ Apr 21 2017, 11:52 PM)
QUOTE (Sachieiel @ Apr 21 2017, 05:48 PM)
QUOTE (Red John the Taiwanese Man @ Apr 21 2017, 11:35 PM)
QUOTE (Sachieiel @ Apr 21 2017, 05:33 PM)
QUOTE (Red John the Taiwanese Man @ Apr 21 2017, 11:19 PM)
We are glad that the NPT is treated with such disdain by the West, and we will ensure our policies regarding the middle-east are updated so as to ensure we keep with the times.

Germany is a nation dedicated to nuclear non-proliferation. Indeed we have gone further than the NPT by declaring that we will not permit the basing of nuclear weapons in our territory.

However, we cannot see it as anything other than hypocrisy if 5 (or maybe 6) nuclear powers condemned Saudi Arabia for pursuing nuclear capabilities themselves.

Indeed, we apologize, and hope to spread nuclear capabilities to all our allied states.

Because that is conducive to global stability, right?

Not condemning nations for pursuing nuclear capabilities does not mean that we shouldn't take less condemnatory means of persuading nations against pursuing nuclear capabilities.

Is the PRC asking that we condemn nations such as Israel, India and Pakistan for their own pursuits of nuclear weapons?

We would rmeind Germany that those three were never signatories of the treaty in the first place. Saudi Arabia most definitely was a part of the NPT. They withdrew from it, after all.

Indeed, but unless we are making the NPT part of customary international law and enforcing it as such, I do not see why Saudi Arabia should be punished for withdrawing.


--------------------
BOP XV
Chancellor Helmut Kohl
Federal Republic of Germany

Mexican Revolution
Luis Terrazas

[spoiler]War on Terror
President Vladimir Putin of the Russian Federation

BOP XIV
King Khalid bin Abdulaziz al Saud
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
[/spoiler]
Top
babyfinland
Posted: Apr 21 2017, 06:21 PM


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The UNSG's irresponsible and baseless claims have confused our dear friends in China, I think. Withdrawing from the NPT and actually pursuing nuclear weapons are two separate things. We are on track to re-sign the NPT soon.


--------------------
Balance of Power XV (1990)
King Fahd bin Abdulaziz Al Saud
Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques
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